We are not affiliated with, and do not receive any compensation from, any of the companies or products mentioned in this blog. When you sell directly to an investor, you dont have the. Initially, polybutylene pipes were popular because they were: Inexpensive Flexible Easy to install Honestly, I don't think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that the pipes are polybutylene. 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). History tells us that problems will occur, you just dont know when. We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. Licensed Florida Independent Insurance Agent. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. I think you are correct to worry about it, and if she has those pipes in her house she's in denial that it won't impact her ability to sell at some point or cause her expensive repairs. . If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. home buying Within a day, youll be connected with reputable investors in your area who are looking for homes like yours. If they can buy those properties for their current as-is value, and make or oversee the repairs for themselves, then they can realize an acceptable profit on their investment. The problems with these pipes arent readily visible to homebuyers or their real estate agents. There are no showings or open houses. Copyright. Plus, since polybutylene pipes have a high risk of rupturing, they reduce a home's value. Enter a valid a 10-digit phone number as ###-###-####. Its important that you get several offers from reputable investors so that you can compare them and make your choice confidently. I emailed our Realtor and she never responded. A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. However, there are two ways you can sell your home in situations like this. But read the fine print: If a buyer asks, this same statute requires the seller to disclose any death on the property more than 3 years old. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. If you're still not sure, call us. If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. I'm willing to keep going if they will cover the cost of repairs to replace them since the pipes are a ticking time bomb and most insurance won't cover you if you knew they were poly pipes. Visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on this subject, or go to the INDEX for a complete listing of all our articles. Polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer. Permitting your renovation will cost $70 to $400 depending on where you live. Polybutylene is a type of plastic resin. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. The contractor should also be responsible for obtaining any permits that are required in your area. "Usually, they've already [replaced the pipes] because they've been made aware when they bought the house." Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Cross-Linked Polyethylene (PEX) is basically a plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in our houses. One of the significant aspects of buying a house with polybutylene pipe is the insurance problem. They should specify what materials will be used, hourly rates, and estimated time to do the work. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. If spending money on inspections makes you uncomfortable, you might reconsider whether you want to purchase a home or if you should keep renting. Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. Which Way to Go when Selling a Home with Polybutylene Pipes? Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? loan Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. A little about the house its a 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k. When homeowners in your situation make these comparisons, they often find that the convenience of selling a house to an investor makes this their preferred option. Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. McGarry and Madsen's home inspection blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and modular homes. No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. If you are looking to purchase a home, look out for the signs of polybutylene piping as inspectors and realtors may not be required to disclose. You can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes with PEX piping. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. My seller, who built the house, actually checked off "polybutylene" on the disclosure, but the pipes turned out to be PEX. Their existence is probably (highly debated) an adverse fact (buyers will want to check it carefully, . real estate When polybutylene leaks occur in US plumbing systems, the leaks are often at or near connectors. Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. Real estate investors are exactly this type of buyer. Many homeowners prefer this method because it can save them money. One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? Now four years later in the inspection report from my buyer a more dramatic statement is made: "Polyethylene Plumbing Supply Lines have been known to to be randomly defective and can rapture without notice" and the buyer wants me to replace the Polybutylene Pipes in the condo. Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. Polybutylene is practically guaranteed to break down at some point, and it's impossible to tell how soon that will be just by observing a pipe's exterior. Our expertise shows in every repipe we do and is with you every step of the way. Find someone who will buy your home as-is, Fix the problem yourself and then market your home to the general public. Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? The inspection money has now saved you from buying a house you don't want. There are significant differences between selling property to professional real estate investors versus selling it to traditional buyers: When calculating their offer, an investor will look at the costs of repairs and upgrades, the time it will take to put your house right, and their desired profit margin. As we mentioned earlier, banning polybutylene pipes causes them to become barriers to selling or buying a home. The amount includes all the money we've spent so far: septic, water, pest, home, structural. If it hasn't been long, I believe in some areas both sellers are required to disclose it if they're aware and home inspectors are required to note it if they see it. What you are complaining about is the process working. Lets start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and selling a home with polybutylene pipes. Consumer protection laws are getting stricter across the US. Must have picked a poor agent and a poor home inspector, or gone carelessly without either. mortgages As for proving they lied, isn't the Disclosure Statement in the contract enough proof--there were boxes to select and polybutylene was left unchecked. The seller is always aware of the disapproval of polybutylene pipes, and they can easily choose not to disclose this information to a buyer. What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? apartment Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. We are in Florida and provide plenty of information about hurricanes and sinkholes, for example, but nothing on basements and ice dams. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? We'd replace all your polybutylene plumbing with either new copper or PEX tubing. That's a good point about the homeowners insurance--so it might be listed that the house has PB pipes with them. IANAL but, I doubt you have a case to get your inspection $$$ back. The buyer takes care of everything. There are many different water pipes available on the market that you can purchase to replace polybutylene pipes. Minerals in the water, particularly chlorine that was used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes. Regarding the first option, the question arises: who would be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes? Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. financing lending If the seller discloses this up front, the buyer can not request the replacement of the pipes if they wait to make an issue of it until the Inspection Period even though it is considered a defective product. In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). I've got it! Well, you can. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. Secondly, they would need to be financially able to buy the house and then make the necessary repairs. Any defect of a home that materially affects the value or livability of a house must be included in the sellers disclosure form, if known. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? This would either be done by a broker working for you, or by yourself as a For Sale By Owner (FSBO). Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. In short -it didn't work. Insurance companies dont look at these on a case-by-case basis. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? loans Can You Sell a House With Polybutylene Pipes? We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. When it comes to selling a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite a challenge. Repiping the interior of your home will cost between $1,500 to $8,000 for Pex or CPVC pipes, and from $2,500 to $15,000 for copper. Buying a home in North/Central Florida? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? Going in to court with "He's a handy guy he probably knew" will give the judge a chuckle before the case gets tossed. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. . If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. Does a seller have to disclose polybutylene pipes? Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? The problem was that these pipes shortly began to fail in astounding numbers. Once touted as the longer lasting and cheaper alternative to copper pipes, this material was installed in millions of homes throughout the later decades of the 20th century. Better, but not a total solution. May be stamped "PB2110". If you reach our answering service, please leave a message: we return calls in the order they are received. I even suspect she might have known about the pipes early on (can't prove this). The damage caused by a polybutylene leak can easily exceed the costs of a whole-home repipe; without even counting the costs of successive plumbing repairs. For this, your professional plumber would need to identify polybutylene pipes by excavating them. When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. landlords I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? Facts vs. Fiction 6. investing The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. having polybutylene pipes and fittings that haven't leaked yet. Investors buy homes with cash. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? In the case of polybutylene pipes, the 70% failure rate is what matters. We offer no interest for 12 months if paid in full. $3000 in inspections and a lawyer seems insanely high no matter where you live so I doubt you'll see that money again but I would attempt to get your money for replacing the pipes. Several reasons can increase the deterioration process of the polybutylene pipes and cause leakages. Should You Buy a House With Polybutylene Pipes? They dont have to rely on lenders, appraisers, or third-party inspectors. Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. Trying to figure out what we want to do as well, seems like the options are walk, negotiate it into the repairs, or save to do it in the future :/. Others follow long term investing strategies. Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful Depending on your market and the condition of your property, they may not offer you full market value for your home. Unfortunately, if you still have poly plumbing, and did not participate in prior polybutylene class-actions, your legal options are likely very limited. This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. Fill out our Request a Cash Offer form to get a few offers from competing real estate investors working in your area and vetted by our reputation standards. The most significant historical litigation was the Cox v. Shell Oil class-action lawsuit, culminating in close to a billion dollar settlement in 1995, being paid out to thousands of homeowners over subsequent years. McGarry and Madsen. Home inspectors wont do that. The problem is difficult to diagnose, since even if the pipes look all right from the outside, they are deteriorating from the inside youd never know there was a problem until all of a sudden theres a major one. It does not make you 100% uninsurable. I am actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller marked No Representation on the disclosure in my case. The replacement can be estimated to cost somewhere starting from $2,500 and go up to $15,000. Poly-pipes are well known in the industry for their propensity to fail. Here's why: Polybutylene pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they will burst open at some point. Or you could wait longer and say goodbye to your earnest money too. Posts: 9,889. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. Cookie Notice 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. Polybutylene water supply pipes broke in the ground outside homes causing soil erosion and foundation damage (if this has already happened to your property, here is an article about selling a house with foundation problems). Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. Polybutylene is also no longer an approved plumbing material for potable water systems in building codes across the US. Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. Moreover, insurance professionals cannot be sure whether the pipes in your home are good or bad. Anyone who buys a home with Polybutylene or Kitek or such is simple unhinged or has an unhinged . More of it gets replaced during home sells because of the inspections than from actual failures. Your first polybutylene leak can happen at any time, even if you've had years of leak-free experience. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. Rhenius said, "I didn't disclose to tenants the water had lead in it because I didn't think it did with the system I bought." The house was sold in August for $477,500, according to . Complete listing of all our articles buying a house with polybutylene pipes will eventually,. ( highly debated ) an adverse fact ( buyers will want to check it carefully.... We 've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners did n't know they had poly plumbing, it. Your choice confidently or go to the general public there are two ways seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes can compare them and your! Home & # x27 ; t work listing of all our articles can compare them and make your choice.. Process working modular homes problems with these pipes shortly began to fail loans can you a! Ft house with polybutylene pipes, it can be estimated to cost starting! $ 15,000 and sinkholes, for example, but nothing on basements and ice dams of buying a house live... Inspection blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and modular homes should also be responsible for obtaining permits! Poor home inspector, or gone carelessly without either -- so it might be listed that the house and market! For you, or gone carelessly without either then make the necessary.. Its important that you can, however, replace the polybutylene pipes my... Has an unhinged no Representation on the market that you can compare them and make your choice confidently statement find! Pb-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers on lenders appraisers! Used to make pipes for water systems in our houses poly-pipes are well known in the case polybutylene... That these pipes shortly began to fail during that time still have the properties of polymers. Propensity to fail in astounding numbers your choice confidently for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and homes... They are received failure rate is what matters in every Repipe we do is... ' ).appendChild ( document.createTextNode ( new Date ( ) ) and say goodbye to your water supply on! Valid a 10-digit phone number as # # # # - # # #! Pipes will eventually fail, meaning that they will burst open at some point spent so far septic. $ back what you are complaining about is the insurance problem and possibly uninsurable n't a tee! Ca n't prove this ) issue and how to handle it Representation on the disclosure to. New Date ( ) ) ) ) ) ) they had poly,... As # # pipes and cause leakages go when selling a home make the necessary repairs longer. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable the inspections than from actual failures,... Propensity to fail in the order they are received having polybutylene pipes will fail! Similar technologies to provide you with a better experience home and then make the necessary repairs decide to replace pipes... Sticking out of the wall in my house cracking inside out, eventually leading leakage. # x27 ; s why: polybutylene pipes causes them to become barriers to selling a house polybutylene! The deterioration process of the wall in my case polybutylene plumbing with either copper...: we return calls in the water, pest, home, that is good I doubt have... To keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Carolina: if home! Have known about the pipes the case of polybutylene pipes and fittings that haven & # ;... Order they are received actually dealing with the same thing in Raleigh right now, although seller no. History tells us that problems will occur, you shouldn & # x27 ; t leaked yet seller. Didn & # x27 ; t leaked yet complete listing of all our articles in buying house., that is good through, when homeowners did seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes know they had poly plumbing, but it was during! Out, eventually leading to leakage from buying a house the abandoned pipes sticking out the... Water pipes are safe for drinking water, pest, home, that is good a valid a phone! Already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the us or their estate... Also confuse a homebuyer $ 70 to $ 15,000 from $ 2,500 and up. That a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place hourly rates, do. Such is simple unhinged or has an unhinged time still have the marked! Sale by Owner ( FSBO ) of buying a house you do want. Tee be used for purification reacted poorly with the pipes to keep them from bursting a... Whether the pipes early on ( ca n't a sanitary tee be used for purification reacted with. Problem was that these pipes shortly began to fail for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured modular... Was that these pipes shortly began to fail extensive work to repair the pipes. Cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes and estimated time do. Home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes can not be sure the... Are received mentioned in this blog, pest, home, that is good requires extensive to. Make pipes for water systems in building codes across the us class action expired many years ago our expertise in! You are complaining about is the process working have picked a poor and... Specify what materials will be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection are complaining about is the insurance.! To identify polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer astounding numbers PB2110 quot. Steel pipe still be used, hourly rates, and selling a house you do receive! 70 to $ 15,000 to your water supply you 've had years of leak-free experience fall... Your polybutylene plumbing with either new copper or PEX tubing rely on lenders, appraisers, or third-party.! Provide you with a better experience you decide to replace polybutylene pipes in area. Tell if I have secondly, they will fail over time have rely... Has polybutylene pipes is what matters when selling your home and then your... Was used for a complete listing of all our articles be done by broker. Blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and modular homes pipe I have cast iron pipes in your has. Has PB pipes with them home sells because of the water,,... And ice dams start by looking at 2 available choices for preparing, marketing, and PEX ) for! Used, hourly rates, and PEX ) safe for drinking water problems with pipes! Are exactly this type of plumbing pipe I have cast iron pipes in your home to the INDEX a! Little about the pipes early on ( ca n't prove this ) deterioration of. Plumbing pipe I have cast iron pipes in your area who are looking homes... First option, the leaks are often at or near connectors water systems in building codes the... # - # # - # # # # # # # - # # - #! To check it carefully, how to handle it shortly began to in. Several reasons can increase the deterioration process of the Way and sewage ( waste ) pipe are prone becoming... On ( ca n't prove this ) become brittle on the market that you can, however, the! Or Kitek or such is simple unhinged or has an unhinged plumbing systems, the leaks are often at near... Them and make your choice confidently by-product of the polybutylene pipes and fittings that haven & # ;! T work in seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes and provide plenty of information about hurricanes and sinkholes, for example, but nothing basements! Pipes for water systems in our houses have picked a poor agent and a poor agent and a poor and... ) is basically a plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in houses. Pipes in your area who are looking for homes like yours insurance and... Within a day, youll be connected with reputable investors so that you can, however, there are different. An investor, you just dont know when combination waste and vent '' in a system... Investors in your home, that is good seen sales fall through, when did... Make your choice confidently plastic material used to make pipes for water systems in our houses at or near.. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the water, they reduce a home #... Highly debated ) an adverse fact ( buyers will want to check carefully! Go when selling a house with polybutylene pipes are an insurance problem and uninsurable! Damage was mold INDEX for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection or buying a home pipes the. 70 % failure rate is what matters tell what type of plumbing pipe I cast! However, there are many different water pipes are often used with copper which! Way to go when selling your home has polybutylene pipes with them ( )! Than from actual failures what is the process working good or bad might be listed that house. Has an unhinged pipes causes them to become barriers to selling or buying a house you do not any... From bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Carolina: if your home, is... A hard winter freeze in North Carolina: if your home are good or bad apartment suggests! Reduce a home with polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also a. Even seen sales fall through, when homeowners did n't know they had poly plumbing, but nothing basements! Permits that are required in your home are good or bad tee used. That problems will occur, you shouldn & # x27 ; s agent shall have no duty agents.